Interview with Daniel Natal
On Mercantilism, Globalism and Empire.
The first time I came across Daniel Natal, was in this podcast.
I was blown away.
The breadth of his historical knowledge (plus his recall!).
The clarity of his thought and ability to explain.
Far more people should be aware of Daniel Natal and his work.
I will always be indebted to Daniel for explaining Mercantilism to me. I’d heard the term but had no understanding of what it meant and most certainly didn’t realise its importance to Empire and the world we live in today. For me, it’s an especially important piece of the overall puzzle that explains our modern world and how we got here.
It’s not only a business model, deeply interested in supply chains, but it’s a mindset and world view. Trying to understand the mindset of globalists and globalism is no easy matter; like a krill trying to understand and empathise with a whale.
I contacted Daniel inviting him to an interview, and I’m so grateful that he accepted.
It’s a wonderful collection of answers filled with deep understanding and insights.
I learnt plenty and I’m sure you will too.
With thanks to Daniel Natal.
Introduction and Background
"Tell us about your journey to this point, what have you studied and what has been your career pathway?"
My path began with my son (who has autism). He was non-verbal until he was five years-old. In order to help him increase his vocabulary, I would take walks with him and we’d listen to audiobooks.
We hit Aristotle’s “Nicomachean Ethics” and “Politics,” as well as Plato’s “Republic,” John Stuart Mill’s “Considerations on Representative Government,” Herbert Spencer’s “The Study of Sociology,” Darwin’s “The Origin of Species,” etc. In teaching him about the world—especially about political science—I was educating myself.
Understanding Historical and Economic Dynamics
"Historical Perspective: How do you think the mercantile practices of the British East India Company have shaped modern economic and political systems?"
I think that they’re still very much in a transitional period between The Age of Mercantilism and the Age of Capitalism. In Mercantilism, merchants didn’t make products. They merely sailed to other countries and picked up finished goods there and transported them back home to sell them at a premium.
In Capitalism, by contrast, a new model emerged where people made their own products with factory production. Capitalism dispenses with the need for slaves and colonies. But Capitalism cuts into the profits of Mercantilism; so it is in the interests of the mercantilists to undermine and sabotage any nation-state whose economic model is predicated on factory production. (It’s why the British Empire attacked Germany in both World Wars. It was very much a showdown between the mercantilists and a nation-state generating wealth via factory production.)
"Mercantilism vs. Capitalism: In your view, what are the most significant differences between mercantilism and capitalism, and how do these differences manifest in today's global economy?"
Answer: [See above.]
"Modern Corporatocracy: Can you elaborate on how modern multinational corporations resemble or differ from historical mercantile guilds in terms of influence and operation?"
Modern multi-national conglomerates resemble 16th Century mercantile enterprises by having colonies and slaves. They differ insofar as they use a global supply chain to transport not just finished goods, but materials, minerals and components for parts to aid in factory production. (So they are now a hybrid of mercantilism and capitalism.)
Globalism and National Sovereignty
"Do you think that globalism is an inevitable consequence of global trade?"
Yes. I think that “globalism” is essentially mercantilism. Or, as the International Chamber of Commerce in 1919 framed it “the striving after a global commonwealth”.
"What do you think nation-states can do to claim back their sovereignty from the new globalist framework? Is it even possible considering the tools of violence both economic and military available to Empire?"
Historically, the king always existed in dynamic equilibrium with the aristocrats. He might be richer than any two or three. But he was not richer than all of them combined. Therefore, there was always the danger of the aristocrats ganging up on him and killing them. (The Greek word “tyrant” did not mean “despot”. A tyrant was someone from the ruling class who appealed to the people for help against the oligarchs.)
So historically kings would call on his subjects to aid him in his struggle against the aristocracy….When this failed, you had what happened in England in the 1200s. The aristocrats kidnapped King John, took him into the forest and put a sword to his throat. He was forced to sign Magna Carta, turning over the prerogative of law-making to the aristocrats. After that point, the king lost all real power and became a figurehead and England reverted from a Monarchy to an Oligarchy (run by a House of Lords).
Extrapolated out, if any nation-state tried to acquire prosperity and power by ditching the mercantilist grid and opting for capitalism [i.e., factory production], the other mercantilist-controlled countries would gang up on it and attack it. See the previous example of Germany being attacked by the so-called Allies [mercantilist states].
In the book “Merchants of Peace,” from 1938, the International Chamber of Commerce mentions how, in 1910, the German finance minister Gustav Stresemann preferred German economic nationalism. The response to this was World War One four years later. In short, no matter how wealthy or powerful the king was, the aristocrats would gang up on him and take him down….The United States is grappling with this dilemma now. If nationalists ever won, a world war would be declared to bring America “back into line”.
"Given your extensive understanding of historical and economic dynamics, I'm curious about your perspective on Carroll Quigley's 'Tragedy and Hope.' Specifically, how do you think Quigley's insights into the interplay of power, politics, and economics align with or diverge from your own analyses of historical patterns and modern geopolitical frameworks?"
I’m a big fan of Quigley’s work. I think his analysis of events, more or less, dovetails with my own. Or vice-versa.
Specific Historical Insights
"American Revolution Insights: Could you briefly discuss the role of economic factors, particularly those related to the EIC, in the lead-up to the American Revolution?"
Quigley made an interesting observation at the beginning of “Tragedy and Hope,” regarding the destabilizing effect of technology [and capitalism’s factory production].
The very first factory-made, mass-produced rifles happened in the year 1776. Not-coincidentally, this permitted colonial Americans to rebel against the Mother Country. He made the point that, wherever the people were armed, republics emerged. Wherever the government had the guns (and the means of production) despotisms were the rule. [See: 19th Century Russia and China]
"I have heard you talk about the historical struggle for power between the church, the government, and mercantile guilds… could you please explain that to someone unfamiliar with it."
A great place to start is the 1914 book “Guilds in the Middle Ages,” by Georges Renard. You can read it for free on Project Gutenberg:
The Project Gutenberg eBook of Guilds In The Middle Ages, by Georges Renard.
When Americans speak of “three branches of government,” what they forget was that, in France, for instance, the third branch of government was the Church. The Middle Ages were likewise dominated by three main power-centers:
The Church
The Monarch
The Guilds
One might see their respective institutional power as being akin to:
Big Tech (in terms of being in control of the cultural imagery, communications and information)
The government, which does foreign policy, and
Government, which does domestic policy
The guilds, since the Age of Feudalism, were in charge of domestic policy. They controlled the interior of the country, while the king largely dealt with foreign threats. Eventually, as the mercantile guilds gained more wealth and power, they ended up being richer than the old aristocracy—and wanted their position in the hierarchy.
This became especially more pressing after Columbus opened up the Americas and the British East India Company took over India and China. Now, not only were the mercantile guilds in charge of domestic policy, but they began dominating foreign policy in a way that no king ever could. Without advances in deep-sea ship-building and the discovery of the Americas, this tectonic shift would never have taken place.
Education and Modern Parallels
"Education and History: How do you think the way history is taught in schools impacts our understanding of current economic and political issues?"
History is no longer taught in schools. They replaced it with a counterfeit called “social studies,” which is really just history out-of-order. A narrative with the sequence removed, to ensure that people remain ignorant and dull-witted. This was done on purpose. See Charlotte Iserbyt’s “Deliberate Dumbing Down of America”.
"Influence of Historical Guilds: How did the mercantile guilds of the past influence social and economic structures, and do you see any modern parallels?"
See above—The book “Guilds in the Middle Ages”.
Advice and Personal Philosophies
"Advice for Aspiring Economists and Historians: What advice would you give to young scholars or enthusiasts who are interested in exploring the intersections of history and economics?"
Read economics books in sequence. Start with Adam Smith’s “Wealth of Nations,” David Ricardo’s “Principles of Political Economy and Taxation,” Thomas Malthus’ “An Essay on the Principle of Population,” etc. Read all the classical economists up through Alfred Marshall. Then begin with moderns like Schumpeter, Ha-Joon Chang, etc.
"Personal Philosophies: Can you share some of your personal philosophies or principles that guide your analysis and viewpoints on your show?"
I characterize myself not as “conservative,” so much as “retrograde”. I am stodgy by nature, and believe in learning from the best-practices of the past. That said, I do NOT think we live in the “best of all possible worlds” and should disregard innovation and improvement.
Current Projects and Keeping in Touch
"Are you working on anything at the moment you would like to tell people about?"
I record audiobooks on the side, and would like to direct people to Herbert Spencer’s “The Study of Sociology” as a good book to gain an understanding of how society works.
"How can people stay in touch with you and your work?"
Go to my YouTube channel, which one can find by looking up “The Daniel Natal Show,” or find me on Twitter at DanielNatal18
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