Grandmother

On childhood vaccination: An interview with Janet McNeill

“It’s one of the secrets of the world. We all have the key to one another’s locks. But until we start to talk, we don’t know it.” – Michael Silverblatt

This interview from November 2022 is an appropriate appendix to this interview.

Mother

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I crossed paths with Janet when she wrote some interesting and helpful comments on this Substack.

I understood that she was now a largely retired childhood vaccination activist. That’s a rare creature.

I was interested in her story, and she kindly agreed to a written Q&A interview.

We, the newly awakened, used to be the very people that Janet was trying to help and wake up.

This sentiment from a new friend is apt:

I have only relatively recently opened my eyes to how insidious this whole industry/program really is [childhood vaccination]. Just a few short years ago I was in the camp that thought anti-vaxxers were deranged lunatics. If there's one positive thing to come out of the Scamdemic, it's that it has awakened many people to the truth...

Yes, Janet was the “deranged lunatic” who was trying to keep us from poisoning our kids. What an inversion.

She did it for years, despite the ridicule, shaming and loss of relationship.

With thanks to Janet McNeil from Canada.

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Background and Introduction

1 - Can you describe your professional and personal background before you became involved in vaccination activism?

An unusual background! When I was a 30s-ish stay-at-home mom looking after young children - in the mid-1980s - I was drawn to the environmental movement. The 1980s were a time when the environmental crisis was a "hot" topic (e.g. a few years into my activism, which began in earnest in 1989, the 1992 'World Scientists' Warning to Humanity' - that I'm sure the vast majority of humans have never heard of! - came out). I'd been drawn in, feeling I needed to help "change the world" so my children would have a clean, safe world in which to grow up. I dove in with both feet, becoming both an activist and a writer. Over the following three decades, I did deep research & activism & writing on a laundry list of environmental issues including waste, pesticides, the ozone layer, climate change (back then we were first hearing about "the greenhouse effect," then global warming; the term climate change came later); energy issues, cancer prevention, lead, forest issues - and others. My activism involved research, co-founding environmental groups, writing columns for local small town newspapers, speaking to small community groups, meeting with politicians, personal lifestyle changes, and doing many-many-many projects (& petitions, & letters, protests, sit-ins - even 2 arrests!) on the various different issues over time. Most of the work I did in the early years was on a volunteer basis, but eventually I also obtained paying jobs. Around 2010 I landed on the nuclear issue, eventually spending about 10 years very intensely engaged in anti-nuclear work (again, at first on a volunteer basis, then from 2014 - 18, paid part-time work).

The work was always challenging & for me, satisfying. It felt good to be creative at initiating projects & taking part in an occasional small victory (e.g. pesticide by-laws), but also especially in meeting fellow activists & making new relationships. I definitely felt part of a "tribe" in those years. I also learned a tremendous amount about corporate corruption & collusion and the utter failure of regulatory agencies to actually regulate the industries they claim to regulate.

(Something I did not clue into until delving into the vaccine issue, however, was how corrupted the scientific establishment had become by corporate influence and funding. I was also unaware of how mind-bogglingly corrupt the pharmaceutical industry is; evil, even. And how much power it wields over politicians - in the U.S., here in Canada and, likely, all over the world. As Ralph Nader once said, “Big Pharma’s greatest strength is its hold over Congress. That is where it gets its huge bundle of subsidies and monopolistic privileges.”)  

As an environmental activist, I sometimes felt pretty frustrated at the widespread apathy I witnessed among the general population. I realize now that people in their lives are simply caught up in whatever they're caught up in! For so many, just "making a living" is all-engaging, & environmental issues simply don't register on most people's radar screens. It just isn't what they happen to be shining a light on, as I was doing, so intensely, in my own life.

Being an ever-curious person, I enjoyed really digging into different issues, doing research, & learning a lot. A lot of it not much fun to know about, though, to be honest...

But I was not curious then about the vaccine issue. That was one that simply wasn't registering on my personal radar screen!

2 - What experiences or interests led you to this field?

In 2015 (while still heavily engaged in anti-nuclear work), I became a grandmother. I accompanied my daughter to one of her son's early "well baby" visits, & when she told me he'd received needles in both thighs, I was a bit taken aback. When my own children were young (early 1980s), they'd get just one "shot" - in an arm. So this made me a bit curious. A while later a colleague sent out an email message about the idea of giving children Vitamin C prior to their vaccinations (find a news release about this here:

Vaccinations, Vitamin C, and "Choice" (activehosted.com)

…prompting me to write to several friends to ask them to tell me about their own experiences with vaccinating their children. What an eye-opener! Their children had not reacted well, & they had then done research of their own. One friend chose not to vaccinate her children at all. A couple others had delayed first shots until later (based on research they'd done) & never had subsequent children vaccinated. Once I began writing about vaccines, I eventually did a posting about my friends' stories.

Vaccines: My Friends’ Stories. Warriors — Janet's Planet (janetsplanet.ca)

3 - What specific event or information prompted your focus on vaccines? Can you recall a defining moment that "woke" you up to the issues surrounding vaccination?

It was definitely grandmotherhood that woke me up. I had ignored the issue until then, consumed as I was for all those years by environmental issues/activism/writing. The email message from that colleague really piqued my curiosity. I immediately began a deep dive into the issue - perhaps in a similar way to the deep dive I'd taken in the late 1980s on environmental issues. Once again, I dove in with both feet!

4 - Why did you decide to focus specifically on vaccines rather than other public health issues? What drew you to this particular cause?

Environmental work had always been about public health for me - issues like polluted air & water, pesticide use, the ozone layer, lead - all these issues are in fact public health issues. So, in a very real sense, I was always engaged in public health issues - but talk about something becoming intensely "personal!" Nothing could be more personal than learning that vaccination is not something benign, as I had always supposed, & that my own grandchild could be hugely negatively affected. One lesson I'd learned as an environmental activist was that most often, people become engaged in issues because they've been personally affected - by a landfill site proposal in their neighbourhood, say, or nuclear waste in a location near them, etc. The vaccine issue now hit hugely "close to home" for me, & I was grabbed!

Influences and Education

5 - Who were the key individuals that influenced your early views on vaccines, and what were the seminal books or publications that shaped your understanding?

The first individuals were my close friends who'd had negative experiences with vaccines (but who had kept quiet about them; it was an era when to speak about vaccine injury was simply not "on"). That sent me to documentaries & the Internet. The first documentary I watched was 'Shots in the Dark' - a National Film Board (a Canadian agency) film seemingly no longer available on YouTube. Frankly, it blew my mind. I began learning more at first by encountering mostly U.S. groups (e.g. National Vaccine Information Center or NVIC, Learn the Risk.org), & then later, Vaccine Choice Canada:

Vaccine Choice Canada Homepage - Vaccine Choice Canada

This was all happening in 2016 - the year the documentary 'Vaxxed: From Cover Up to Catastrophe' came out - so naturally, I went & saw the film, in Toronto, with friends. (& also in early 2020, 'Vaxxed II: The People's Truth' - another mindblower!)

From my early days as an activist, I'd always both "done" activism & writing at the same time. With environmental issues, I'd written environment columns for local small town papers. When I started becoming aware of the dangers of vaccines, I started writing about them on a blog I'd been keeping since 2009.

One early item I wrote:

Vaccines: Flabbergasted, Gobsmacked … & more — Janet's Planet (janetsplanet.ca)

conveyed my dismay & outrage at what I'd learned about vaccines. I was genuinely shocked & devastated by it all. Appalled. (I am still appalled!) In early 2020 I wrote another, this one called Holocaust. Anger. Rage. #IAmPissed!

Holocaust. Anger. Rage. #IAmPissed! — Janet's Planet (janetsplanet.ca)

- again, to express my outrage (& heartbreak) at what I now know vaccines are doing to our children (& ourselves!). Once you know what you know, you can see vaccine damage in infants & toddlers. It's heartbreaking. Unvaccinated children look very different. Their faces & eyes look clear & sharp. Their intelligence positively shines through.

6 - How did you stay informed and up-to-date with the latest scientific research and public policies related to vaccines? Were there any specific sources or experts you regularly followed?

Once I learned about the Vaccine Choice Canada group, at some point in 2016 (maybe around the time I attended the 'Vaxxed' documentary), I became an active VCC member. The group held meetings & put out regular newsletters, so I connected with them & shared that I was writing about vaccines on my site. I learned about books that were out there, & gradually acquired a substantial book collection. I became friends with VCC members &, being an activist at heart, eventually took part in some vaccine-related activism.

I'm definitely a big fan of the Dr. Suzanne Humphries & Roman Bystrianyk book Dissolving Illusions: Disease, Vaccines, and The Forgotten History. Dr. Humphries's gradual education as a nephrologist (kidney doctor) to the dangers of vaccines to her patients, & then her deep dive into research culminated in the book & in her doing many YouTube videos about vaccines (which due to increasing censorship have since been taken down, unfortunately).

I'm also a big fan of J.B. Handley's so-important book How to End the Autism Epidemic.

Once Del Bigtree's Highwire weekly online show was launched, I became a pretty regular watcher.

My latest book acquisition is the new one called I'm Unvaccinated and That's OK!, by Dr. Shannon Kroner - which I learned about from Highwire.

From VCC I learned about the work of Dr. Russell Blaylock, a now-retired American neurosurgeon whose amazing article about immune activation, vaccines and the developing brain should be a must-read for all medical professionals, and all parents - or so it seems to me!

I've learned simply a ton from RFK Jr. and the Children's Health Defense group. CHD puts out regular newsletters and now, lots of videos. While I don't watch most of the videos or read all the newsletters, I do consider Children's Health Defense a hugely informative and valuable resource.

Recently I've much enjoyed the CHD videos with Dr. Paul Thomas (a now-retired pediatrician from Oregon). He's done such amazing work on the vaccine issue! Recently I watched the one in which he & another U.S. pediatrician admit to realizing that vaccinations they had administered to child patients had led to their subsequent autism. That one is here:

Childhood Vaccines: A Candid Discussion with Drs. Pierre Kory and Liz Mumper (substack.com)

Achievements and Reflections

7 - Reflecting on your journey in vaccination activism, what achievements or contributions are you most proud of? How have they made a difference?

One early project I did - in December 2016 - was compiling folders of vaccine-related materials - mostly in graphic form - to give to the MDs in the medical practice I was a patient in for many years. This was in the area where I'd lived for 22 years while raising a family (right across the street, in fact, from the small hospital in which my children had been born). Some of these MDs knew me personally, others had likely heard of me from my environment columns in the 1990s. I made up & distributed about 35 of the kits - choosing graphics, since they convey a lot of powerful information in colourful images. (As just one example, I included one showing the huge bump-up in childhood vaccines since 1986, when the U.S. Congress released the vaccine makers, i.e., the pharmaceutical industry, from liability for any injuries or deaths caused by their products).

It's impossible to say whether this project made a difference - but I'm hopeful it did! My own then-doctor was open to discussing vaccines with me, & when I asked him, also provided me with product "inserts" from the various vaccines given to infants. He acknowledged that I had learned a lot & probably knew "more than anybody" about vaccines. (Many MDs now acknowledge that they are taught almost nothing about vaccines in medical school. Just basically "They work; use them!")

A day or two after I'd dropped the kits off in late 2016, with an explanatory letter at the front of each one, I received a phone call from the administrator of the medical practice saying that this had not been an appropriate thing to do. I thought, "Well ... too bad ... it's already done!" The kits were distinctive (I used red folders) & very easy to go through. So, I'm hopeful the information may have helped educate a doctor or two. At the very least, pique their interest somewhat.

I'm proud of the writings I've done, on both janetsplanet.ca & later, once the Covid era began, on my Substack site.

On the janetsplanet.ca site, all the (many-many) vaccine writings are gathered up in one easy-to-find location on the right-hand side of the site (under the quotations) - listed chronologically - with the most recent up top.

The most-viewed posting on that site is the one about aluminum & mercury in vaccines.

Aluminum & Mercury: Neurotoxins in Vaccines — Janet's Planet (janetsplanet.ca)

A few others I think can still be helpful are:

30 Things You May Not Know About Vaccines — Janet's Planet (janetsplanet.ca)

Fun with Vaccine Inserts — Janet's Planet (janetsplanet.ca)

Vaccines: Miscellany, A - Z — Janet's Planet (janetsplanet.ca)

Vaccination: Dissenting Doctors Have Their Say — Janet's Planet (janetsplanet.ca)

Being very keen on inspiring quotations, there's also a posting with some outstanding quotes.

Vaccines Quotes — Janet's Planet (janetsplanet.ca)

On my Substack site, by far the most-read posting is the one called 'Why I'm an Anti-Vaxxer'

Why I’m an “Anti-Vaxxer" - by Janet McNeill (substack.com)

I'm very glad I wrote it! I think it can be helpful. It's chockfull of information & helpful graphics, &, as explained in the posting, I'm more than happy to wear that supposedly nasty label, because in my case, it's definitely true!

I also did several activist gigs with some friends. One time several of us stood outside our "national broadcaster" the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) on a special occasion, with placards about CBC's lies about vaccines, & the funding they receive from the pharmaceutical industry. On other occasions, I (& others) attended pro-vaccine public events & got up to ask pointed questions and/or display vaccine "inserts" & quoting from them (these inserts are hugely informative - or used to be - & are not offered to parents in the doctor's office when they take their children in for "shots"). With friends I also stood outside the "public health" office in Toronto where people go for vaccinations - with placards, & with information to hand out to passersby. 

As to whether it's all made a difference, that's hard to say! I believe I (& my VCC friends) have helped inform a lot of people - so for me, that counts as success.

8 - In hindsight, what aspects of your work do you think you could have approached differently or improved upon? Are there any missed opportunities you wish to address?

I'm fairly happy with the way I've approached my vaccine-related work. I've helped bring around several people I know to the dangers of vaccines. Joining up with Vaccine Choice Canada was a really good thing to do. Though I'm not active with the group these days, my time with them was hugely worthwhile & satisfying. I'll speak more below about the frustrations & challenges.

Challenges and Strategies

9 - Can you describe a specific moment or event that was particularly challenging in your advocacy for or against vaccines?

By far the biggest challenge for me all along has been the very thing that caused me to dive so deeply into this issue. I badly wanted to help protect my own loved ones & their children. In this, I've failed! My grown children are not receptive to discussing this topic. It really makes me sit back, kind of in wonder, as I reply to these questions! I do know very well how not alone I am in this regard. Many people are unable to get through to loved ones on this issue. But ... that's not much comfort!

Whether one is trying to inform people about environmental issues, Covid-related matters, or vaccines, it's like seeing an iceberg lying ahead. You try to warn people that they may be about to run into it. But ... they don't hear you! Seems like they can't hear you. Or, for some reason, don't want to. It's frustrating, challenging ... even heartbreaking. And somehow, one has to eventually surrender to it! One really has no other choice.

I've continued to write about the issue, though I think I'm done with that at this point. I've said pretty much what I needed to say. A lot of it! It's all "out there." Others are writing about vaccines a lot now - & that's wonderful! In the Covid era, many-many people have clued in that vaccines are not the "safe and effective" things we were carefully taught to believe. Talk about an effective PR phrase! That one really takes the cake. And has earned a well-deserved trashing - at least for a lot more people, & more medical professionals, than in the pre-Covid era.

10 - What strategies or approaches have you found most effective in communicating your stance on vaccines to different audiences, such as medical professionals, parents, or policymakers?

I'm not sure how to answer this! I'm not convinced I've found effective strategies or approaches. For sure, I've failed where I most passionately wanted to succeed.

Hmmmm.

Well. I think the writing was good. I'm happy I wrote all that stuff. (And the "doctor kits." I think that was a pretty good project.)

I did speak to my then-MD early on, when I'd recently begun my journey of learning about vaccines. I think by then I'd harvested this quotation from Dr. Suzanne Humphries:

“I was once an idiot. I once thought that people who didn’t vaccinate were taking advantage of all the people that were. I thought that they were being privileged opportunists, and I was a vaccinating doctor, because I was taught nothing about vaccines, because I had never met an unvaccinated child. But once I met unvaccinated children, and started seeing problems first-hand with vaccinations in my own patients – and started doing my own research – I flipped around 180 degrees. And I’ve known other doctors that were able to do that as well, and some of them, because parents like you have presented the facts to them – quietly, calmly and rationally. That’s key.”

I think it's a powerful, & helpful, one. The more doctors who are "won over," the better!

As for policymakers, oh my. Epic fail! I twice went before the City of Toronto Board of Health committee, with other members of Vaccine Choice Canada, & both times were pretty horrendous. The first time (April 2018), there were four of us speaking to the committee on the issue of the need for full information to be available to parents on vaccination issues. We were pretty much ignored. We were not asked any questions (in spite of making pretty powerful presentations, e.g., this 5-minute one that later went viral:

…and the Councillors were mostly looking down at their phones as we spoke. The second time we went, I think there were 26 of us who presented. Same deal. No questions. Councillors looking down at their phones. Their behaviour was shameful. I had long known from my environmental work that politicians can be almost impervious to facts (many of them are, frankly, not even all that bright!), but their outright rudeness on these two occasions was truly appalling.

It's important to understand how tied into the pharmaceutical industry all these so-called "Boards of Health" are. All of our government agencies are fully in collusion with the very worst polluters - a hard lesson I had had to learn! - and the pharmaceutical industry. After that horrid meeting in September 2018, I wrote a posting called:

Vaccine Makers: Geez These Guys Are Smart! — Janet's Planet (janetsplanet.ca)

…to lay out a few things I'd learned about the City of Toronto & its connections with big pharmaceutical companies ... information I'd not been aware of at the two Board of Health meetings.

There's an old saying "You can't fight City Hall." I did fight City Hall as an activist, for many years. At one time - mostly in my early days as an activist & even sometimes in my anti-nuclear work - I felt some politicians were actually listening.

Not anymore!

Personal Impact

11 - How has your involvement in vaccination activism impacted your relationships with family and friends? Have there been any challenges or support that stood out?

Relationships with my own children have had some awkward moments, what with my (repeated) insistence on conveying information that has not been welcomed. I've done this mostly in written form. Talking about it really hasn't worked - it tends to lead to anger, & good conversation goes out the window once people are angry!

But I can be pretty stubborn - as can they! I do realize it hasn't always been a cakewalk for them, being the children of a mother who dove so deeply into environmental issues & activism when this was decidedly not what their friends' mothers were doing! It seems I've always been a little different from "the crowd." Not exactly fun or easy for them.

When I first began doing vaccine-related postings on Facebook, I lost some friends. Some of my very earliest friendships with fellow environmental activists fell away. (They quietly un-friended me.) The Covid era later also put up barriers between me & many (most!) former environmental activist colleagues. A similar, but slightly different, story...

Friendship-wise, several of my long-time key close ones have remained very solid (& also still, in the Covid era). I'm forever grateful to the long-time friends who told me about their personal vaccine experiences with their children. Their stories added to my determination to pursue knowledge about the vaccine issue, however "unpopular" my views were quickly becoming.

I also definitely "won over" several friends/colleagues on the vaccine issue along the way. That was gratifying.

Finally, I had to learn to just not discuss my views (& writings) on vaccines, & my related activism, with most now-formerly-close activist friends. This too has been a feature of the Covid era. In some venues, my views are definitely not welcome!

12 - Are you aware of specific instances where parents chose not to vaccinate their children based on the information or perspectives you provided? How have those children developed from a health and well-being perspective?

I can't say I've succeeded in this way. Though I certainly did try! Including twice writing postings directed at expectant mothers. The more recent one:

Dear Kate / Expectant Parent: — Janet's Planet (janetsplanet.ca)

It's possible I may have helped cause some parents to delay on the vaccine schedule for their children. Mostly, while involved in vaccine work with VCC, I encountered other parents (some my age, some a bit younger, some similar in ages to my own children) who had already clued in early on, in most cases due to vaccine injuries their own children (or in some cases, grandchildren) suffered. In at least one case, I know personally a woman whose infant died after early injections. And a man whose son became autistic and died in his early 30s - simply no question that he had been severely harmed by vaccines as an infant. Of course, I've also read of many-many-many others & watched many videos from heartbroken parents about these things happening to them.

13 - How have your views on vaccination evolved since you began your activism, and what key experiences or information contributed to those changes?

Before I became involved, I was utterly oblivious to the harms caused by vaccines.

Once I started digging into the issue, I became a full-on "anti-vaxxer" (I'm not aware of the existence of any safe vaccines). The key experiences and information I think I've already alluded to. Documentaries (many of them!). Books. The experiences of other parents. Lots of good conversations with people! As I like to say, conversation is key. It's the "whole darn karmic enchilada!" Which I wrote about here:

Conversation is the Whole Darn Karmic Enchilada! (substack.com)

I might add that, as I continued to research & learn ever-more things about vaccines, I began to connect the dots on some health outcomes of my own that I had never previously associated with vaccines. It took me a very long time indeed to connect all the dots about vaccine impacts to my own children, and to myself. I'm now convinced that on at least two occasions, "booster" shots I took as an adult had serious & long-term impacts on my health.

A Few Final Remarks

I suppose a key aspect of my personality that has led me to look into issues over most of the decades of my adult life is simple curiosity. I just plain enjoy understanding what makes things tick! Things, & people. And trying to make things "better."

In the past few years, I've often used the image of the iceberg to illustrate how important it is for us, always, to look beneath the surface.

There's always so much to learn about an issue - or person! - by doing a little digging. For issues, this may require a lot of reading - & since I've always been a reader, that's never been a problem for me. With people? It comes out in conversation. Conversations take time!

It also seems to me that "connecting the dots" is something a lot of us are pretty slow at, myself definitely included! It took me 63 years to become curious about vaccines. And nearly 20 to finally put together the dots about my own personal health impacts from vaccines.

A quotation I ran across recently helps explain how all of us likely have this tendency.

“Because we think in a fragmentary way, we see fragments. And this way of seeing leads us to make actual fragments of the world.” – Susan Griffin, A Chorus of Stones

(Quoted in the Gabor Maté book The Myth of Normal, a book which, for the record, I did not read! Once I grasped Gabor Maté's enthusiastic embrace of vaccines and the mainstream Covid narrative, I lost my enthusiasm for it.)

Finally, Covid seems to have changed everything!

Life has been very intense indeed since early 2020. Many of us have learned a lot. Really a lot. If we're curious and are willing to do some hard digging. And turn up some very uncomfortable things.

It also seems to be the case that some things in life, it turns out we just have to learn to surrender to.

And, in the midst of so much drama (the world is plenty full of drama these days!?), it can be very very challenging indeed not to feel pretty freaked out by it all.

But when it comes to protecting the people, we love the most? That is very hard to just "surrender" on.

Maybe that's when we need to remind ourselves what Winston Churchill once said.

"Never never never never never give up."

Janet McNeill

September 2023

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