Wow, how is it that Dr. Weston A. Price came to a completely different conclusion in studying Traditional Cultures and their diets? What is the missing information? I am going to guess that it is the addition of non-native radiation that makes this nutrient toxic. Only Wilhelm Reich new to shield his cultures from radiation when he was studying micro-biology. He also shielded his mice when studying them. Arthur Firstenberg points out that Native American Indians smoked and did not suffer from lung cancer. It is the addition of electricity and the fields they produce that make many things in nature carcinogenic.
First he says there is no test for Vitamin A toxicity and then he says this- , United States (2018): 33% of US adult samples had hypervitaminosis A, exceeding the World Health Organization's 20% prevalence threshold for a severe public health concern.- SO, which is it ? I follow Wardee Harmon at Traditional Cooking School and she is great for teaching you the fundamentals of healthy cooking But she follows Garrett Smith in her own life and I just don’t get it. Do you actually think Spinach and Kale and beef liver will do you in ? Not all the other gunk in the world? I just am not sure about this - could be wrong but I don’t get it.
The 33% is referring to liver biopsies in a particular study of cadavers. Liver biopsies are the best way to test your Vit A levels, but are too invasive to do on most people.
I suggest you reread the articles, as well as Grant's free ebooks. He has tons of data to explain how eating foods high in retinoids over time will lead to serious symptoms of toxicity. Since it is a very slow process, it is hard to connect to dietary habits.
Thank you, that makes sense. It’s just another thing to me, another thing to be cut out and be afraid of. I have health issues that I work on Now and can’t wait for a few years while I detoxify my liver because of whatever we’re calling vitamin A. I know he is against anything with copper in it- but try to have a healthy heart without copper . I have more food health awareness than most of the people around me in my every day life - but this just Overwhelms me when I consider a whole new paradigm.
This is an excellent post. Very informative. I am rethinking everything I was ever taught about vitamin A. I do however, take issue with the presumption that vitamin A, standing alone, is responsible for "50%" of the immune disorders people are suffering. And this is because the Control Group study proved that it's a mathematical impossibility vaccine exposures (and related pharmaceuticals) are NOT directly responsible for well-over 90% of the deadly and disabling chronic health disorders we're suffering in the U.S.. SEE: https://ijvtpr.com/index.php/IJVTPR/article/view/40
It is now well understood that things like heart disease, diabetes, cancer, arthritis, thyroid issues, allergies, digestive disorders, kidney and other organ failures, eczema, etc., are largely immune driven. We also now know we were lied to about "cholesterol" causing heart disease. In fact, many people are now reversing heart disease (and even arthritis, and many other issues) with a high fat carnivore diet.
I believe that until the advent of mass vaccination (on a repeated basis) we were in much better shape to handle plant toxins, i.e., less vulnerable to intoxication from these assaults, and so, could more safely turn to plants to survive when needed. Obviously, tolerance for particular plants can vary amongst differing populations as well, just like it can vary amongst adapted animal species.
I was almost killed when they jabbed me as a child, and I later developed arthritis (pretty bad). Getting off of plants (most of the time;-) saved me from a wheelchair. Dropping all plants out of my diet reversed my arthritis very quickly, and there were many other benefits as well. I wonder if vitamin A should be classified as yet another a plant toxin? Many plants are very rich in vitamin A.
Joy, you have to understand how vaccines can induce endogenous retinoid toxicity by inducing the liver to release retinoids into the bloodstream. So the two go together. See the talk I gave on this topic in one of the links in this post: https://researchrebel.substack.com/p/vitamin-a-the-skeleton-key-to-unlocking
Thank you for the link. I just checked it out. Excellent work! I am actually the person who founded the Control Group and conducted the study. See the peer-reviewed and published paper on this study here: https://ijvtpr.com/index.php/IJVTPR/article/view/40
I DO understand what vaccines do to the human body;-) And I stand firm that vaccine exposures have made humans much more vulnerable to all other assaults, including those we get from eating plants. When dropping plants from my diet improved my health so radically, I became even more convinced that I was correct about this. As a direct result of vaccine exposures, humans have all but lost their ability (however limited it was to begin with) to tolerate plant toxins.
Due to your excellent report on the vitamin A toxicity, I have decided I will add it to my list of known plant toxins to AVOID!
Interesting article. Now I'm wondering about the topical Retin A creams that so many use to combat wrinkles and hyperpigmentation... it works, but we're damaging our skin's DNA? Zoiks!
Interesting. I switched to a mostly plant free diet and it saved me from very severe (debilitating) arthritis. So clearly almost any vitamin A I am getting is coming from animal products now.
You are welcome. I want to add that beet root in the form of beet kvass is also a great liver tonic and you can take it in homeopathic potency as well. Look for beta vulgaris and use a low potency like 6x twice a day.
I once say a bumper sticker with the following message: Eat right stay fit die anyway. Of course most , if not all that we think is true is a lie. Life is a dangerous, but, is so many wonderful things. I am grateful for the life God has given . That is my message for the day. Sisterly love to all.
I can vouch for the reality of Vitamin A toxicity b/c I developed it many years ago.
My dermatologist had recommended Accutane for severe acne, when nothing else had helped, but I was in my childbearing years, and I didn't want to touch this toxic drug with a 10-foot pole.
Since I had read high doses of Vitamin A could help, I decided to give it a try. At the time, I knew it could be potentially toxic, but the man advocating this treatment protocol said if you began to show signs of having too much Vitamin A, you could just stop taking it, and you'd be fine. (Wrong!)
Turns out the Vitamin A worked like a charm, initially ~ until years later when my health suddenly and completely crashed. I lost 1/2 of the hair on my head and all of my body hair. My lips and nails started disintegrating. I lost weight, I developed thrush and I was so sick my MD thought I had AIDS. (I knew I didn't.)
Fortunately, a close friend was a nutritionist ~ and she pointed out that excess Vitamin A can interfere with thyroid metabolism, so I found a sympathetic physician who was willing to put me on supplemental thyroid on a test basis, and within 3 days, my symptoms began to disappear.
I immediately QUIT the Vitamin A, and felt 100% better within a week ~ and then I began years of gentle liver cleansing using supplemental herbs like milk thistle, which I would highly recommend to anyone who thinks Vitamin A toxicity might be an issue.
I would also definitely check your thyroid levels (using a FULL thyroid panel, not just your TSH levels), to make sure they are where they should be.
Hi Unbekoming. I appreciate the time and care you take to inform about various subject and for me also what effect one health. So thank very much for the work you do.
> I quickly learned is that you don’t need to overdose on vitamin A for it to be toxic. Rather vitamin A bioaccumulates over many years and can eventually become toxic, and there’s no known antidote.
The two main forms of vitamin A in the human diet are preformed vitamin A (retinol, retinyl esters), and provitamin A carotenoids such as alpha-carotene and beta-carotene that are converted to retinol. Preformed vitamin A comes from animal products, fortified foods, and vitamin supplements. Carotenoids are found naturally in plant foods.
No where in this substack or in the links provided is there any discussion of the two forms of Vitamin A.
Preformed Vitamin A can be quite toxic if an over dose.
Proformed vitamin A can turn you orange if you eat to much plant food containing alpha-carotene and beta-carotene, such as winter squash, carrots etc. Proformed vitamin a is never toxic as the persons liver is required to convert to proformed viatmin A to preformed. So once the body has signaled enough alpha-carotene and beta-carotene has been converted to vitamin A, the liver stops the conversion process.
There are other examples in nature where substance such as MAOIs found in plants are not toxic (may make you sick but won't kill you) and pharma created MAOIs that can be toxic enough to kill you.
I was surprised that Grant Genereux in depth investigation did not inform him about this difference. I believe Grant is well positioned with all his research to correct my understanding of Pre and Pro formed vitamin A. I have been a lacto ova vegetarian for most of my life.Only drinking raw milk and eating eggs on occasion from chickens that live free range and organic feed (ie not food produce by Purina etc.). Of course all animal products contain Preformed viatmin A. However there is a difference in how the vitamin A is process by ones body if it comes from raw milk cream. Like wise from chickens free to find what they need to be healthy. Their yolks are a very deep red orange. Not the pale yellow of CAFOs chicken eggs you buy at the store.
He said that for him Anthony Mawson is a very reliable source of information on Vitamin A. So I looked up work by Anthony Mawson in relation to Pre and Proformed vitamin A. Only found [ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002916523292710 ] which doesn't seem to be written by Anthony Mawson.
Most all the info I searched for related to Preformed and Proformed and Anthony Mawson were behind paywalls and so my search is lacking. Still only "preformed viatmin A was discussed in the papers I could find that referenced his work.
After reading this substack and searching Anthony Mawson for his work with proformed vitamin A and coming up with a blank. It seems that Vitamin a toxicity in part is caused by preformed vitamin A which is supplemented in high doses. By eliminating "preformed vitamin A" and only ingesting "proformed vitamin A" allows the Liver to control from the outset how much vitamin A is created from alpha-carotene and beta-carotene.
Further research needs to be done on Raw Milk from cows that are free of Corporate produce feed designed to increase milk volumne instead of the health of the cow, same for chickens etc. It maybe found that respecting the natural ways animals have sustained themselves for millions of years is the best way after all.
So I look forward to you or Grant's reply to the above.
Your point about milk makes intuitive sense. How else could the African tribes that consume large quantities of milk and blood ( sometimes subsisting on only this for half the year ) not be falling prey to vitamin A toxicity? I guess some presumed genetic adaptive change to be able to “detoxify” the body from vitamin A would be necessary?
> I guess some presumed genetic adaptive change to be able to “detoxify” the body from vitamin A would be necessary?
REPLY: I don't know. What I intuited from Grant's work is the effect of preformed Vitamin A on the body ends up causing the symptoms of old age. Arthritis, aches and pains, degradation of liver and other internal organs. I have never seen a longevity study of the Masi of Africa. The longest live people on Earth to date are found (I believe) on Sardinia in the Mediterranean Sea. Here is their diet lightly described:
"Follow the Sardinian diet
The traditional Sardinian diet consists of whole-grain bread, beans, vegetables and fruit. According to the Blue Zone website, 26 percent of their diet is dairy from goat or sheep’s milk and five percent includes meat and fish."
When experimental archeologist Bill Schindler visited Sardinia he found that that actually eat a diet very high in meant (as in eating meat/meat products every day and grilled lamb etc on celebratory occasions. Other actual eye witnesses seem to contradict many other Blue Zones claims, such as for Costa Ricans. The whole concept seems quite cherry picked to tell a predetermined story.
So it would seem. The problem I have with your reference to Bill Schindler (I didn't check him out) is that for the most part Sardinian's are self contained. Thus a heavy meat diet is questionable.
I don't know any of it from first hand experience. But I would accept that lamb and goat would be a staple but not a daily staple. Both are too important of the local economy, wool, milk, cheese etc.
So my take is that there life style is ancient, low stress, low impact on the land and animals. Thus longevity. But I too am projecting. Whatever works for you is the path you should follow.
I am became a vegetarian in my early 20s. Grew up on a small ranch and castrated, de-horned, branded calfs. Outwardly I wanted to be a man as the other cowboys we worked with were. Inwardly I was horrified and what I was doing and what was being done. I thought the only reason they would do this was there is no other way.
When I found out one could be truly health being a vegetarian (Organic from day one) I abandon meat in all it's forms and never looked back. Being a healthy vegetarian is not by default easy. One needs a very deep grounding in nutrition and biology/human body, to fully benefit from such a diet. It continues to be an on going investigation on my part.
I went down his rabbit hole a couple of years ago and I decided to climb out. I don't doubt that what he says about the processes that the researchers and governments followed were faulty/fraudulent, but I don't believe that vitamin A and D are poisons along with niacin and who knows what else. I also think that he's long past the point of being able to get past the biases that he's developed when evaluating his health problems.
this is very interesting to me and will get me to revisit the mechanics of my healing myself from gout. in my substack i've written how an alternative doctor's recommendation that i return dairy to my diet would clear my gout. the rational provided was that dairy and meat are the only two natural sources of vitamin a and that the kidneys require vitamin a to function. my body wasn't converting vegetal carotenes efficiently to vitamin a. within two days of returning butter to my diet the gout cleared away. (that's not the end of my gout story though!)
i've done my own intuitive process and that suggests that genereaux's thesis is fundamentally correct. so, now i'm puzzled. i had read about 'artificial' vit a being toxic and that animal and dairy are the only natural sources of vit a. however, genereaux is saying all vitamin a is toxic, natural or not. so, more investigation. what in the butter helped me? placebo? how does this tie in with the health benefits and dangers of vegan, keto, carnivore, etc?
and the accumulation reminds me of the toxicity of iron because it also accumulates and is not measured properly by allopathic medicine. genereaux's comment about giving plasma (blood?) is also the suggested protocol to help reduce iron accumulation and eventual toxicity.
I don’t know about vitamin A, but M. Genereux says in another article that vitamin D is « rat poison », so I guess he is not someone I can take seriously.
I have had nothing but health benefits from dropping plants from my diet. It saved me from a wheelchair. I wonder how much of this effect was due to the particular type of vitamin A that's available from plants, and whether it should just be classified as yet another dangerous plant toxin?
One thing is for certain, when we concentrate different plant chemicals and put them in a pill form, we must be extremely cautious with the use of these things.
Since there is no plant form of vitamin A, only beta carotene which can be transformed into retinol in the body (and even this conversion varies a lot based on genetics. People from
northern latitudes perform this conversion very inefficiently) I don’t understand your logic. What am I missing ? Thanks!
So, from this perspective, is the high concentration of vitamin A in liver considered the result of the liver’s dealing with a “toxic substance”, as opposed to the liver naturally requiring vitamin A for its function?
Very good question, which almost answers itself. I do know that the liver can store things like vitamin K (about 6 months supply as I understand it). But we should also expect that it would struggle to protect us from toxins, and so, we would find them concentrated there. Anything that we've got too much of, (which is the right amount might not be toxic) the liver fights to protect us from. Hard to say why in some instances, it would store, rather than metabolize/detox certain substances. The liver can also become overwhelmed and not be able to detox us, so maybe then it stores it?
You are correct. Plants only have the precursors for vitamin A - AND plants have thousands of known (and "naturally occurring") pesticides and carcinogens.
I am unafraid of the version of vitamin A I am getting from animal fats. Seriously concerned about the versions they're putting into pills however.
Agreed, thank you. Having recently found out that, although I metabolize substances like alcohol and coffee very rapidly, I am a poor metabolized of many toxic substances such as BPA, aflatoxin, benzene etc and consequently, very interested in liver function. Overloading our livers with the high burden of man-made chemicals can be a hindrance to the livers proper functioning.
Thank you for your thoughtful reply I’m glad you have found a path that works for you. A lot of this probably depends on ancestry (genetics). As a northerner (Scandinavian) I have ancestrors that had very little access to plant foods and that is reflected in many aspects of genetics, eg the inability to convert beta carotene to vitamin A. I also tolerated starches , including fiber, poorly, and an attempt to eat vegan diet resulted in a huge backlash from my body.
Neither one of us has actually been to Sardinia, it sounds like, so we are both speculating. What I’m reacting to is intentional obfuscation of truth in the service of ideology. Too much of that these days from levels high and low!
Vitamin A is a fat soluble vitamin. Therefore excesses can NOT be easily excreted as is the case with water soluble vitamins, thus they can buildup in the body more easily and cause toxicity. The general concept is that any substance consumed by the body can become a toxin. The determining factor is the dose needed for that adverse effect.
Wow, how is it that Dr. Weston A. Price came to a completely different conclusion in studying Traditional Cultures and their diets? What is the missing information? I am going to guess that it is the addition of non-native radiation that makes this nutrient toxic. Only Wilhelm Reich new to shield his cultures from radiation when he was studying micro-biology. He also shielded his mice when studying them. Arthur Firstenberg points out that Native American Indians smoked and did not suffer from lung cancer. It is the addition of electricity and the fields they produce that make many things in nature carcinogenic.
interesting point
Thanks. Ha ha, I wrote that with a lot of confidence that I don't always feel.
First he says there is no test for Vitamin A toxicity and then he says this- , United States (2018): 33% of US adult samples had hypervitaminosis A, exceeding the World Health Organization's 20% prevalence threshold for a severe public health concern.- SO, which is it ? I follow Wardee Harmon at Traditional Cooking School and she is great for teaching you the fundamentals of healthy cooking But she follows Garrett Smith in her own life and I just don’t get it. Do you actually think Spinach and Kale and beef liver will do you in ? Not all the other gunk in the world? I just am not sure about this - could be wrong but I don’t get it.
The 33% is referring to liver biopsies in a particular study of cadavers. Liver biopsies are the best way to test your Vit A levels, but are too invasive to do on most people.
I suggest you reread the articles, as well as Grant's free ebooks. He has tons of data to explain how eating foods high in retinoids over time will lead to serious symptoms of toxicity. Since it is a very slow process, it is hard to connect to dietary habits.
Thank you, that makes sense. It’s just another thing to me, another thing to be cut out and be afraid of. I have health issues that I work on Now and can’t wait for a few years while I detoxify my liver because of whatever we’re calling vitamin A. I know he is against anything with copper in it- but try to have a healthy heart without copper . I have more food health awareness than most of the people around me in my every day life - but this just Overwhelms me when I consider a whole new paradigm.
This is an excellent post. Very informative. I am rethinking everything I was ever taught about vitamin A. I do however, take issue with the presumption that vitamin A, standing alone, is responsible for "50%" of the immune disorders people are suffering. And this is because the Control Group study proved that it's a mathematical impossibility vaccine exposures (and related pharmaceuticals) are NOT directly responsible for well-over 90% of the deadly and disabling chronic health disorders we're suffering in the U.S.. SEE: https://ijvtpr.com/index.php/IJVTPR/article/view/40
It is now well understood that things like heart disease, diabetes, cancer, arthritis, thyroid issues, allergies, digestive disorders, kidney and other organ failures, eczema, etc., are largely immune driven. We also now know we were lied to about "cholesterol" causing heart disease. In fact, many people are now reversing heart disease (and even arthritis, and many other issues) with a high fat carnivore diet.
I believe that until the advent of mass vaccination (on a repeated basis) we were in much better shape to handle plant toxins, i.e., less vulnerable to intoxication from these assaults, and so, could more safely turn to plants to survive when needed. Obviously, tolerance for particular plants can vary amongst differing populations as well, just like it can vary amongst adapted animal species.
I was almost killed when they jabbed me as a child, and I later developed arthritis (pretty bad). Getting off of plants (most of the time;-) saved me from a wheelchair. Dropping all plants out of my diet reversed my arthritis very quickly, and there were many other benefits as well. I wonder if vitamin A should be classified as yet another a plant toxin? Many plants are very rich in vitamin A.
Joy, you have to understand how vaccines can induce endogenous retinoid toxicity by inducing the liver to release retinoids into the bloodstream. So the two go together. See the talk I gave on this topic in one of the links in this post: https://researchrebel.substack.com/p/vitamin-a-the-skeleton-key-to-unlocking
Thank you for the link. I just checked it out. Excellent work! I am actually the person who founded the Control Group and conducted the study. See the peer-reviewed and published paper on this study here: https://ijvtpr.com/index.php/IJVTPR/article/view/40
I DO understand what vaccines do to the human body;-) And I stand firm that vaccine exposures have made humans much more vulnerable to all other assaults, including those we get from eating plants. When dropping plants from my diet improved my health so radically, I became even more convinced that I was correct about this. As a direct result of vaccine exposures, humans have all but lost their ability (however limited it was to begin with) to tolerate plant toxins.
Due to your excellent report on the vitamin A toxicity, I have decided I will add it to my list of known plant toxins to AVOID!
THANK YOU! And God bless you.
Joy
Good on you for founding the control group and doing the study! Very impressive. Thank you and good luck with your future endeavors.
Thank you.
Godspeed!
Interesting article. Now I'm wondering about the topical Retin A creams that so many use to combat wrinkles and hyperpigmentation... it works, but we're damaging our skin's DNA? Zoiks!
Would it therefore be unsafe to take Cod Liver Oil containing Vit A during pregnancy. Weston A Price book said it is okay to take.
Yes, unsafe, esp during pregnancy. The Finnish gov't came out with formal advice to pregnant women not to take CLO because they were seeing problems.
Thank you
Interesting. I switched to a mostly plant free diet and it saved me from very severe (debilitating) arthritis. So clearly almost any vitamin A I am getting is coming from animal products now.
can't get vit a from plants, only beta carotene.
Makes sense.
there are homeopathic remedies and tinctures that have a long history of detoxing the liver. No one needs to wait three years before feeling better. Carduus Marianus, Chelidonium majus to name just two, https://www.pureformulas.com/product/liver-stim-liquescence-by-professional-formulas/1000013950, https://www.wellnessherbs.com/carduus-marianus-compositum-drops
Thank you for posting this link!
You are welcome. I want to add that beet root in the form of beet kvass is also a great liver tonic and you can take it in homeopathic potency as well. Look for beta vulgaris and use a low potency like 6x twice a day.
Many thanks, appreciated!
I once say a bumper sticker with the following message: Eat right stay fit die anyway. Of course most , if not all that we think is true is a lie. Life is a dangerous, but, is so many wonderful things. I am grateful for the life God has given . That is my message for the day. Sisterly love to all.
I can vouch for the reality of Vitamin A toxicity b/c I developed it many years ago.
My dermatologist had recommended Accutane for severe acne, when nothing else had helped, but I was in my childbearing years, and I didn't want to touch this toxic drug with a 10-foot pole.
Since I had read high doses of Vitamin A could help, I decided to give it a try. At the time, I knew it could be potentially toxic, but the man advocating this treatment protocol said if you began to show signs of having too much Vitamin A, you could just stop taking it, and you'd be fine. (Wrong!)
Turns out the Vitamin A worked like a charm, initially ~ until years later when my health suddenly and completely crashed. I lost 1/2 of the hair on my head and all of my body hair. My lips and nails started disintegrating. I lost weight, I developed thrush and I was so sick my MD thought I had AIDS. (I knew I didn't.)
Fortunately, a close friend was a nutritionist ~ and she pointed out that excess Vitamin A can interfere with thyroid metabolism, so I found a sympathetic physician who was willing to put me on supplemental thyroid on a test basis, and within 3 days, my symptoms began to disappear.
I immediately QUIT the Vitamin A, and felt 100% better within a week ~ and then I began years of gentle liver cleansing using supplemental herbs like milk thistle, which I would highly recommend to anyone who thinks Vitamin A toxicity might be an issue.
I would also definitely check your thyroid levels (using a FULL thyroid panel, not just your TSH levels), to make sure they are where they should be.
It's too much. If I don't want to die of fear I better stop reading your Substack. I wouldn not how to apply this, let alone get my family on board.
Hi Unbekoming. I appreciate the time and care you take to inform about various subject and for me also what effect one health. So thank very much for the work you do.
> I quickly learned is that you don’t need to overdose on vitamin A for it to be toxic. Rather vitamin A bioaccumulates over many years and can eventually become toxic, and there’s no known antidote.
REPLY: https://nutritionsource.hsph.harvard.edu
The two main forms of vitamin A in the human diet are preformed vitamin A (retinol, retinyl esters), and provitamin A carotenoids such as alpha-carotene and beta-carotene that are converted to retinol. Preformed vitamin A comes from animal products, fortified foods, and vitamin supplements. Carotenoids are found naturally in plant foods.
No where in this substack or in the links provided is there any discussion of the two forms of Vitamin A.
Preformed Vitamin A can be quite toxic if an over dose.
Proformed vitamin A can turn you orange if you eat to much plant food containing alpha-carotene and beta-carotene, such as winter squash, carrots etc. Proformed vitamin a is never toxic as the persons liver is required to convert to proformed viatmin A to preformed. So once the body has signaled enough alpha-carotene and beta-carotene has been converted to vitamin A, the liver stops the conversion process.
There are other examples in nature where substance such as MAOIs found in plants are not toxic (may make you sick but won't kill you) and pharma created MAOIs that can be toxic enough to kill you.
I was surprised that Grant Genereux in depth investigation did not inform him about this difference. I believe Grant is well positioned with all his research to correct my understanding of Pre and Pro formed vitamin A. I have been a lacto ova vegetarian for most of my life.Only drinking raw milk and eating eggs on occasion from chickens that live free range and organic feed (ie not food produce by Purina etc.). Of course all animal products contain Preformed viatmin A. However there is a difference in how the vitamin A is process by ones body if it comes from raw milk cream. Like wise from chickens free to find what they need to be healthy. Their yolks are a very deep red orange. Not the pale yellow of CAFOs chicken eggs you buy at the store.
He said that for him Anthony Mawson is a very reliable source of information on Vitamin A. So I looked up work by Anthony Mawson in relation to Pre and Proformed vitamin A. Only found [ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002916523292710 ] which doesn't seem to be written by Anthony Mawson.
Most all the info I searched for related to Preformed and Proformed and Anthony Mawson were behind paywalls and so my search is lacking. Still only "preformed viatmin A was discussed in the papers I could find that referenced his work.
After reading this substack and searching Anthony Mawson for his work with proformed vitamin A and coming up with a blank. It seems that Vitamin a toxicity in part is caused by preformed vitamin A which is supplemented in high doses. By eliminating "preformed vitamin A" and only ingesting "proformed vitamin A" allows the Liver to control from the outset how much vitamin A is created from alpha-carotene and beta-carotene.
Further research needs to be done on Raw Milk from cows that are free of Corporate produce feed designed to increase milk volumne instead of the health of the cow, same for chickens etc. It maybe found that respecting the natural ways animals have sustained themselves for millions of years is the best way after all.
So I look forward to you or Grant's reply to the above.
Your point about milk makes intuitive sense. How else could the African tribes that consume large quantities of milk and blood ( sometimes subsisting on only this for half the year ) not be falling prey to vitamin A toxicity? I guess some presumed genetic adaptive change to be able to “detoxify” the body from vitamin A would be necessary?
> I guess some presumed genetic adaptive change to be able to “detoxify” the body from vitamin A would be necessary?
REPLY: I don't know. What I intuited from Grant's work is the effect of preformed Vitamin A on the body ends up causing the symptoms of old age. Arthritis, aches and pains, degradation of liver and other internal organs. I have never seen a longevity study of the Masi of Africa. The longest live people on Earth to date are found (I believe) on Sardinia in the Mediterranean Sea. Here is their diet lightly described:
"Follow the Sardinian diet
The traditional Sardinian diet consists of whole-grain bread, beans, vegetables and fruit. According to the Blue Zone website, 26 percent of their diet is dairy from goat or sheep’s milk and five percent includes meat and fish."
https://orderisda.org/culture/italian-living/how-to-live-a-long-life-like-so-many-sardinians-2020/ and https://strictlysardinia.com/sardinia-blue-zone/
When experimental archeologist Bill Schindler visited Sardinia he found that that actually eat a diet very high in meant (as in eating meat/meat products every day and grilled lamb etc on celebratory occasions. Other actual eye witnesses seem to contradict many other Blue Zones claims, such as for Costa Ricans. The whole concept seems quite cherry picked to tell a predetermined story.
Hi Volva,
So it would seem. The problem I have with your reference to Bill Schindler (I didn't check him out) is that for the most part Sardinian's are self contained. Thus a heavy meat diet is questionable.
I don't know any of it from first hand experience. But I would accept that lamb and goat would be a staple but not a daily staple. Both are too important of the local economy, wool, milk, cheese etc.
So my take is that there life style is ancient, low stress, low impact on the land and animals. Thus longevity. But I too am projecting. Whatever works for you is the path you should follow.
I am became a vegetarian in my early 20s. Grew up on a small ranch and castrated, de-horned, branded calfs. Outwardly I wanted to be a man as the other cowboys we worked with were. Inwardly I was horrified and what I was doing and what was being done. I thought the only reason they would do this was there is no other way.
When I found out one could be truly health being a vegetarian (Organic from day one) I abandon meat in all it's forms and never looked back. Being a healthy vegetarian is not by default easy. One needs a very deep grounding in nutrition and biology/human body, to fully benefit from such a diet. It continues to be an on going investigation on my part.
I went down his rabbit hole a couple of years ago and I decided to climb out. I don't doubt that what he says about the processes that the researchers and governments followed were faulty/fraudulent, but I don't believe that vitamin A and D are poisons along with niacin and who knows what else. I also think that he's long past the point of being able to get past the biases that he's developed when evaluating his health problems.
hola, unbekoming.
this is very interesting to me and will get me to revisit the mechanics of my healing myself from gout. in my substack i've written how an alternative doctor's recommendation that i return dairy to my diet would clear my gout. the rational provided was that dairy and meat are the only two natural sources of vitamin a and that the kidneys require vitamin a to function. my body wasn't converting vegetal carotenes efficiently to vitamin a. within two days of returning butter to my diet the gout cleared away. (that's not the end of my gout story though!)
i've done my own intuitive process and that suggests that genereaux's thesis is fundamentally correct. so, now i'm puzzled. i had read about 'artificial' vit a being toxic and that animal and dairy are the only natural sources of vit a. however, genereaux is saying all vitamin a is toxic, natural or not. so, more investigation. what in the butter helped me? placebo? how does this tie in with the health benefits and dangers of vegan, keto, carnivore, etc?
and the accumulation reminds me of the toxicity of iron because it also accumulates and is not measured properly by allopathic medicine. genereaux's comment about giving plasma (blood?) is also the suggested protocol to help reduce iron accumulation and eventual toxicity.
I don’t know about vitamin A, but M. Genereux says in another article that vitamin D is « rat poison », so I guess he is not someone I can take seriously.
This is very good to know!
Mind blowing article! Not much one CAN eat safely!!!
I have had nothing but health benefits from dropping plants from my diet. It saved me from a wheelchair. I wonder how much of this effect was due to the particular type of vitamin A that's available from plants, and whether it should just be classified as yet another dangerous plant toxin?
One thing is for certain, when we concentrate different plant chemicals and put them in a pill form, we must be extremely cautious with the use of these things.
Since there is no plant form of vitamin A, only beta carotene which can be transformed into retinol in the body (and even this conversion varies a lot based on genetics. People from
northern latitudes perform this conversion very inefficiently) I don’t understand your logic. What am I missing ? Thanks!
So, from this perspective, is the high concentration of vitamin A in liver considered the result of the liver’s dealing with a “toxic substance”, as opposed to the liver naturally requiring vitamin A for its function?
Very good question, which almost answers itself. I do know that the liver can store things like vitamin K (about 6 months supply as I understand it). But we should also expect that it would struggle to protect us from toxins, and so, we would find them concentrated there. Anything that we've got too much of, (which is the right amount might not be toxic) the liver fights to protect us from. Hard to say why in some instances, it would store, rather than metabolize/detox certain substances. The liver can also become overwhelmed and not be able to detox us, so maybe then it stores it?
You are correct. Plants only have the precursors for vitamin A - AND plants have thousands of known (and "naturally occurring") pesticides and carcinogens.
I am unafraid of the version of vitamin A I am getting from animal fats. Seriously concerned about the versions they're putting into pills however.
Agreed, thank you. Having recently found out that, although I metabolize substances like alcohol and coffee very rapidly, I am a poor metabolized of many toxic substances such as BPA, aflatoxin, benzene etc and consequently, very interested in liver function. Overloading our livers with the high burden of man-made chemicals can be a hindrance to the livers proper functioning.
Thank you for your thoughtful reply I’m glad you have found a path that works for you. A lot of this probably depends on ancestry (genetics). As a northerner (Scandinavian) I have ancestrors that had very little access to plant foods and that is reflected in many aspects of genetics, eg the inability to convert beta carotene to vitamin A. I also tolerated starches , including fiber, poorly, and an attempt to eat vegan diet resulted in a huge backlash from my body.
Neither one of us has actually been to Sardinia, it sounds like, so we are both speculating. What I’m reacting to is intentional obfuscation of truth in the service of ideology. Too much of that these days from levels high and low!
Vitamin A is a fat soluble vitamin. Therefore excesses can NOT be easily excreted as is the case with water soluble vitamins, thus they can buildup in the body more easily and cause toxicity. The general concept is that any substance consumed by the body can become a toxin. The determining factor is the dose needed for that adverse effect.